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[Music]

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welcome to the skeptic zone

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the podcast from australia for science

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and reason

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[Music]

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yes it's the skeptic zone podcast

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episode number 630

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for the 8th of november 2020

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congratulations to president-elect joe

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biden and vice president-elect

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kamala harris even the birds outside the

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skeptic zone window are quite happy and

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it's only just after five o'clock in the

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morning

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about an hour ago i woke up to my phone

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going ding ding ding

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what what's going on i looked and my

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friends in the us are

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just letting me know that something

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historic had happened

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now normally i'm sitting here cursing

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the birds outside the window who keep

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chirping when i try to record but this

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morning

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who cares keep going but getting back to

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the skeptic zone coming up on this

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week's show we have a report

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over the last uh couple of weeks on the

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adventures and misadventures of the

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vaxxed 2 bus or the vexed bus

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or the pox bus or all sorts of names

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it's been called

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this is the big black bus that's been

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traveling around australia promoting

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well basically it's promoting conspiracy

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theories when you really get down to it

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these people are so wrapped up in their

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own little world of

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bizarre and wonderful and crazy

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conspiracy theories the trouble is of

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course they're spreading this

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misinformation around australia but they

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have not had

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an easy road of it an easy road of it

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why find out with our story at the top

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of the show

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after that it's a quiet chat with james

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randy part of an interview i've never

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used before

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was taken out edited out due to time

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restraints and we were

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interrupted during the course of the

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interview but over a long

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hour or so we just had a nice chat and i

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used much of it

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finally but these are the bits i didn't

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use and hearing them back i wonder why

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they're quite interesting i think you'll

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enjoy this quiet chat

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with james randy following that we have

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logical fallacies with michelle

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bickersma hello michelle

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we have this week the hasty

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generalization fallacy

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also known as the argument from small

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numbers and the lonely fact fallacy

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and i know that uh michelle is planning

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to give us

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lots more logical fallacies coming up

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over the next weeks

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also later on we have news from

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australian skeptics

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the highlights from the latest

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newsletter and

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the book of tim and this week tim will

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be looking at double delusion

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house of horrors house of science

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and more stay tuned at the end of the

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show for

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more announcements from me but now it's

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time for me to run downstairs

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have something really typically

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american oh what can i have i've got a

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coffee already

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i know i i'm going to have some

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doughnuts

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why not the classic american snack

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i'm gonna run downstairs have some

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lovely donuts

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while i do that i hope you enjoy the

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[Music]

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some months ago we reported on the

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vaxxed bus

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or the vexed bus as i like to call it

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and its tour

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in the state of queensland this large

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black

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bus is a copy of a similar bus that

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tours the united states of america

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the australian version of this bus much

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like its american counterpart

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has within it a small recording space

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complete with a couch

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where parents and others are encouraged

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to enter to tell their stories

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of what they consider are the adverse

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reactions

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of their children to vaccinations the

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other

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thing this tour seems to do is to spread

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misinformation and conspiracy theories

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about not only vaccinations

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but undoubtedly about covert 19

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as we'll see the organizers of this tour

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the australian vaccination

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risks network have gone on the record

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with their denial of covert 19 and their

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appalling advice about not wearing masks

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or maybe more accurately their derision

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of wearing masks

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for example and to refresh your memory

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here is some of what these

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people have said and these quotes come

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from the media release issued by the

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australian skeptic some months ago

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covert 19 is nothing more than a bad

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cold

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have encouraged people to take photos in

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hospitals to show that covert 19 is not

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serious discouraged face masks for

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covert 19

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and stated temperature testing is crazy

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and stupid

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likened vaccination to rape claimed

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microchips could be injected into the

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population via vaccines

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promoted the falsehood that contrails

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from aircraft

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which they call chemtrails are used to

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poison the population

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spread the discredited falsehood that

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vaccines

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lead to autism propagated the myth

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that sudden infant death syndrome

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and fatal injury suffered by some babies

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who were shaken to death

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are really the results of vaccines

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it's hard to imagine a more

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irresponsible attitude

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during the recent pandemic and overall

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i think you can see how wrapped up these

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people are in conspiratorial thinking

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no wonder they don't take covert 19

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seriously

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once the queensland tour had finished

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part of this tour saw the bus being

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kicked out of a caravan park when the

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manager discovered what they were up to

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it seems there was a hiatus before a new

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tour of new south wales was announced

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a flyer that has come my way for the

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tour has a picture of the bus

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with the heading vaxxed bus down under

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new south wales tour part one

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october the 16th woolen bar 17th

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byron 18th ballina 19th grafton

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21st and 22nd coughs that's coffs

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harbour

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23rd port mac that's macquarie

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25th and 26th newcastle 27th

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gosford 28th north sydney 30th plus the

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31st

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sydney city then in november

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the first sydney city again third

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parramatta

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fourth penrith now i'm not exactly sure

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when that flyer was issued

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now it seems that after the bus tour of

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queensland

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more and more local councils here in new

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south wales were prepared

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for this conspiracy carnival to come to

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town

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this was helped by everyday people in

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the community alerting councils

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and maybe even pointing them to the

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media release from australian skeptics

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there were also radio hosts who warned

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of the bus tour

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just some of the action taken includes

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the blue mountains council and that's a

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couple of hours to the west of sydney

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met on july the 28th and

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as a matter of urgency unanimously

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passed a motion moved by councillors

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christy and phil

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prohibiting bookings by the vaxxed 2 bus

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on council land

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the motion reinforces a new south wales

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health order

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barring mass gatherings due to covert 19

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risk

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on the 14th of october new italian elms

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the lord mayor of

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newcastle and that's a city a couple of

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hours to the north of sydney

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posted on facebook i've been alerted by

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public health professionals that the

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so-called

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vaxxed bus plans to visit newcastle at

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the end of october

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public health experts have advised me

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that some of the information published

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by this organization

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includes that vaccines cause autism

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and covert 19 is nothing more than a bad

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cold

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city of newcastle will not tolerate the

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spreading of dangerous misinformation

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about public health matters we will

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ban the event and any anti-vaccination

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events

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from occurring on any of our land

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or at any of our facilities and will

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take enforcement action

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if any unapproved events take place in

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our city

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i have also written to the new south

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wales police commissioner nick fuller

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apm and the new south wales minister for

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health

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the honorable brad hazard mp asking them

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to use the full force of their powers to

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ban this event from newcastle

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and new south wales now

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this led to supporters of the bus

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likening newcastle to north korea

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then on the 14th of october councillor

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linda scott of the

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city of sydney council posted on

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facebook

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this week a vaxxed tour hosted by fellow

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conspiracy theorist

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group australian vaccination risks

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network

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is expected to arrive in sydney on

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wednesday

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this is why i have taken the

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extraordinary step of proposing the

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city approach the state and federal

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government

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to advocate strongly for all steps to be

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taken to disallow

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the anti-vaccination risk network bus

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tour from stopping within the city of

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sydney local government area

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despite being recognized globally as one

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of the most successful public health

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measures in human history

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there are false perceptions among

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growing numbers of people

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that vaccination is unsafe and

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unnecessary

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as a result of a determined

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misinformation campaign

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anti-vaccination movements are

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implicated in the lowering of

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vaccination rates

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and the increase of disease preventable

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by vaccines social media has provided a

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platform to

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disseminate anti-vaccination sediments

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as

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with so many questionable movements not

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founded in science

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alternative truths fake news

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manufactured crisis

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good old-fashioned conspiracy theories

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2020 has provided fertile ground for

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those who would push the global

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phenomenon of

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vaccine hesitancy anti-vax media

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coverage has increased by 900 percent

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from march to may this year

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anti-vaccination groups are capitalizing

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on community anxiety

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around covert 19 but the truth is that

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00:11:34,150 --> 00:11:31,680
the

289
00:11:35,990 --> 00:11:34,160
promotion of vaccine hesitancy and

290
00:11:38,470 --> 00:11:36,000
anti-vaccination materials

291
00:11:39,110 --> 00:11:38,480
threatens australia's high immunization

292
00:11:42,150 --> 00:11:39,120
rates

293
00:11:44,710 --> 00:11:42,160
and our first class health system

294
00:11:47,670 --> 00:11:44,720
but this is the willful and intentional

295
00:11:50,710 --> 00:11:47,680
sharing of deadly misinformation

296
00:11:53,910 --> 00:11:50,720
i feel very very strongly that this

297
00:11:56,150 --> 00:11:53,920
disinformation campaign is a risk to

298
00:11:56,710 --> 00:11:56,160
maintaining australia's high vaccination

299
00:11:59,509 --> 00:11:56,720
rates

300
00:12:00,710 --> 00:11:59,519
risking millions of lives we cannot take

301
00:12:03,030 --> 00:12:00,720
this for granted

302
00:12:05,110 --> 00:12:03,040
i do not ever want to see a situation

303
00:12:07,990 --> 00:12:05,120
where the children of this city

304
00:12:08,550 --> 00:12:08,000
and this country are put at risk because

305
00:12:11,509 --> 00:12:08,560
fear

306
00:12:13,350 --> 00:12:11,519
trumps scientific evidence where our

307
00:12:14,230 --> 00:12:13,360
children could die from infectious

308
00:12:17,110 --> 00:12:14,240
diseases

309
00:12:18,150 --> 00:12:17,120
once stamped out now a motion was put

310
00:12:21,430 --> 00:12:18,160
which included

311
00:12:22,790 --> 00:12:21,440
amongst other things the clause the lord

312
00:12:24,949 --> 00:12:22,800
may be requested

313
00:12:26,949 --> 00:12:24,959
to write immediately to the federal and

314
00:12:28,470 --> 00:12:26,959
new south wales attorney general

315
00:12:30,550 --> 00:12:28,480
federal and new south wales health

316
00:12:33,110 --> 00:12:30,560
minister and the new south wales

317
00:12:34,870 --> 00:12:33,120
police commissioner requesting they take

318
00:12:37,670 --> 00:12:34,880
all available steps to ban

319
00:12:39,590 --> 00:12:37,680
any such events from publicly owned

320
00:12:41,910 --> 00:12:39,600
facilities or land

321
00:12:43,509 --> 00:12:41,920
and that motion was passed on the 26th

322
00:12:47,030 --> 00:12:43,519
of october

323
00:12:48,069 --> 00:12:47,040
now this action led to councillor linda

324
00:12:51,430 --> 00:12:48,079
scott receiving

325
00:12:54,710 --> 00:12:51,440
abusive messages from what the skeptical

326
00:12:56,710 --> 00:12:54,720
community has dubbed the flying monkeys

327
00:12:59,190 --> 00:12:56,720
that is the supporters of the anti-vaxx

328
00:13:00,629 --> 00:12:59,200
movement here is a clip of an interview

329
00:13:04,150 --> 00:13:00,639
with councillor scott

330
00:13:05,829 --> 00:13:04,160
on radio 2gb here in sydney

331
00:13:07,269 --> 00:13:05,839
i applaud you for that i know that this

332
00:13:09,509 --> 00:13:07,279
did pass unanimously

333
00:13:10,310 --> 00:13:09,519
in council but you've been subjected now

334
00:13:13,110 --> 00:13:10,320
to

335
00:13:14,790 --> 00:13:13,120
disgusting online abuse what have you

336
00:13:17,110 --> 00:13:14,800
copped

337
00:13:19,030 --> 00:13:17,120
look it's quite remarkable i've been on

338
00:13:19,430 --> 00:13:19,040
the city of sydney now for eight years

339
00:13:21,990 --> 00:13:19,440
and

340
00:13:24,550 --> 00:13:22,000
i'm always up for a debate about values

341
00:13:27,509 --> 00:13:24,560
and principles but the kind of abuse

342
00:13:28,470 --> 00:13:27,519
i've seen emailed to me and shared on

343
00:13:31,190 --> 00:13:28,480
social media

344
00:13:32,629 --> 00:13:31,200
in the last 12 hours has been really

345
00:13:34,870 --> 00:13:32,639
quite remarkable i

346
00:13:35,990 --> 00:13:34,880
can't say many of the things on air or

347
00:13:38,550 --> 00:13:36,000
the kind of

348
00:13:39,829 --> 00:13:38,560
animals i've been compared with or the

349
00:13:42,710 --> 00:13:39,839
comments about my

350
00:13:43,430 --> 00:13:42,720
face or the way that i dress it's

351
00:13:47,430 --> 00:13:43,440
personal

352
00:13:50,230 --> 00:13:47,440
and nasty yeah really awful um

353
00:13:53,269 --> 00:13:50,240
nasty personal tax or for trying to

354
00:13:56,470 --> 00:13:53,279
stand up to the public interest

355
00:13:57,350 --> 00:13:56,480
much of what happened to the bus is no

356
00:14:00,389 --> 00:13:57,360
mystery

357
00:14:01,990 --> 00:14:00,399
as they themselves love to post videos

358
00:14:04,710 --> 00:14:02,000
of them being confronted by

359
00:14:06,470 --> 00:14:04,720
local police and other officials i think

360
00:14:07,430 --> 00:14:06,480
it gives them a nice feeling of being

361
00:14:09,590 --> 00:14:07,440
persecuted

362
00:14:10,710 --> 00:14:09,600
but you can be sure that everything that

363
00:14:12,470 --> 00:14:10,720
happens to them

364
00:14:13,990 --> 00:14:12,480
which was often a case of them not

365
00:14:17,110 --> 00:14:14,000
seeking the required

366
00:14:18,389 --> 00:14:17,120
permits or the wise decision of local

367
00:14:21,189 --> 00:14:18,399
councils

368
00:14:22,949 --> 00:14:21,199
to them this is all part of the

369
00:14:25,670 --> 00:14:22,959
conspiracy

370
00:14:26,629 --> 00:14:25,680
one world government big farmer media in

371
00:14:29,670 --> 00:14:26,639
the pocket of

372
00:14:31,829 --> 00:14:29,680
who knows who you name it

373
00:14:33,269 --> 00:14:31,839
it's sad to say but i don't think we've

374
00:14:36,550 --> 00:14:33,279
seen the end of this

375
00:14:39,030 --> 00:14:36,560
bus but what we are seeing is the

376
00:14:39,430 --> 00:14:39,040
increasing number of local councils who

377
00:14:42,550 --> 00:14:39,440
have

378
00:14:44,389 --> 00:14:42,560
called it out and taken action together

379
00:14:45,829 --> 00:14:44,399
with a small army of clear thinking

380
00:14:48,949 --> 00:14:45,839
citizens

381
00:14:51,910 --> 00:14:48,959
the vaxxed 2 bus the vexed bus the

382
00:14:54,069 --> 00:14:51,920
pox bus i've seen it being called

383
00:14:56,069 --> 00:14:54,079
continues on its sorry journey

384
00:14:57,430 --> 00:14:56,079
and we will keep you updated on its

385
00:15:22,389 --> 00:14:57,440
misadventures

386
00:15:27,430 --> 00:15:26,150
dr harriet hall md known to thousands as

387
00:15:29,910 --> 00:15:27,440
the skeptoc

388
00:15:31,829 --> 00:15:29,920
a retired family physician and former

389
00:15:34,150 --> 00:15:31,839
air force flight surgeon

390
00:15:36,629 --> 00:15:34,160
she writes about medicine so-called

391
00:15:40,310 --> 00:15:36,639
complementary and alternative medicine

392
00:15:42,790 --> 00:15:40,320
science quackery and critical thinking

393
00:15:44,310 --> 00:15:42,800
harriet now has a free course a series

394
00:15:46,230 --> 00:15:44,320
of 10 video lectures

395
00:15:48,230 --> 00:15:46,240
on science-based medicine and

396
00:15:50,230 --> 00:15:48,240
alternative medicine

397
00:15:52,470 --> 00:15:50,240
the videos and an accompanying course

398
00:15:53,269 --> 00:15:52,480
guide can be found by following the link

399
00:15:56,990 --> 00:15:53,279
at

400
00:16:00,310 --> 00:15:57,000
doc dot info or by visiting

401
00:16:03,910 --> 00:16:00,320
web.randy.org educational

402
00:16:06,230 --> 00:16:03,920
dash modules dot html

403
00:16:07,590 --> 00:16:06,240
topics covered in the series are

404
00:16:10,230 --> 00:16:07,600
science-based medicine

405
00:16:11,269 --> 00:16:10,240
versus evidence-based medicine what is

406
00:16:14,790 --> 00:16:11,279
cam

407
00:16:17,670 --> 00:16:14,800
chiropractic acupuncture homeopathy

408
00:16:18,389 --> 00:16:17,680
naturopathy and herbal medicine energy

409
00:16:21,030 --> 00:16:18,399
medicine

410
00:16:22,069 --> 00:16:21,040
miscellaneous alternatives pitfalls in

411
00:16:24,870 --> 00:16:22,079
research

412
00:16:26,870 --> 00:16:24,880
and science-based medicine in the media

413
00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:26,880
and politics

414
00:16:30,949 --> 00:16:28,720
harriet covers each topic in a

415
00:16:33,829 --> 00:16:30,959
matter-of-fact no-nonsense way

416
00:16:34,790 --> 00:16:33,839
that's sure to educate and entertain

417
00:16:36,090 --> 00:16:34,800
skeptdoc

418
00:16:48,230 --> 00:16:36,100
dot info

419
00:16:53,910 --> 00:16:51,189
during december 2014 i was touring

420
00:16:56,629 --> 00:16:53,920
australia with james the amazing randy

421
00:16:57,670 --> 00:16:56,639
i had the opportunity to interview randy

422
00:16:59,670 --> 00:16:57,680
a couple of times

423
00:17:01,590 --> 00:16:59,680
what follows is part of an interview i

424
00:17:04,870 --> 00:17:01,600
didn't use i

425
00:17:06,309 --> 00:17:04,880
edited this out due to interruptions and

426
00:17:08,549 --> 00:17:06,319
time constraints

427
00:17:09,429 --> 00:17:08,559
so from the archives and for the first

428
00:17:12,470 --> 00:17:09,439
time

429
00:17:15,189 --> 00:17:12,480
another chat with james randy we discuss

430
00:17:16,390 --> 00:17:15,199
conjuring tricks card tricks that is

431
00:17:18,870 --> 00:17:16,400
people's memories

432
00:17:23,510 --> 00:17:18,880
and our experiences doing various

433
00:17:27,669 --> 00:17:25,750
when did you learn out of this world i

434
00:17:29,430 --> 00:17:27,679
learned it very early on i guess from

435
00:17:31,510 --> 00:17:29,440
harry smith at the arcade magic and

436
00:17:34,870 --> 00:17:31,520
novelty company in toronto

437
00:17:35,590 --> 00:17:34,880
um did it did it floor you oh yeah you

438
00:17:37,110 --> 00:17:35,600
first saw it

439
00:17:38,390 --> 00:17:37,120
oh yeah yeah that's that's oh yeah

440
00:17:40,950 --> 00:17:38,400
that's why they call it out of this

441
00:17:43,590 --> 00:17:40,960
world i'm sure oh yeah no no no

442
00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:43,600
because it doesn't have an equal i don't

443
00:17:46,710 --> 00:17:44,480
think it has in

444
00:17:48,070 --> 00:17:46,720
the whole card magic thing i don't think

445
00:17:50,630 --> 00:17:48,080
it has an equal

446
00:17:51,350 --> 00:17:50,640
and oops there that might be some news

447
00:17:55,029 --> 00:17:51,360
would you

448
00:17:57,669 --> 00:17:55,039
yep you get that if you please no you

449
00:17:59,510 --> 00:17:57,679
we're full so rudely interrupted yeah

450
00:18:00,789 --> 00:17:59,520
that's right we're just discussing um

451
00:18:03,270 --> 00:18:00,799
the first time you saw her out of this

452
00:18:05,830 --> 00:18:03,280
world oh yeah and

453
00:18:08,870 --> 00:18:05,840
harry smith did it for me and i was

454
00:18:13,990 --> 00:18:08,880
suitably impressed as you can imagine

455
00:18:15,430 --> 00:18:14,000
and i didn't do all of this until three

456
00:18:17,190 --> 00:18:15,440
or four years ago

457
00:18:19,029 --> 00:18:17,200
this particular this particular one of

458
00:18:22,150 --> 00:18:19,039
getting rid of that whole first stage

459
00:18:22,870 --> 00:18:22,160
of how you do the setup so this occurred

460
00:18:26,390 --> 00:18:22,880
to you

461
00:18:26,870 --> 00:18:26,400
yeah yeah i know have you invented many

462
00:18:33,510 --> 00:18:26,880
or

463
00:18:35,669 --> 00:18:33,520
i don't know you know i think i did

464
00:18:37,270 --> 00:18:35,679
but i just don't know there several

465
00:18:40,390 --> 00:18:37,280
moves with the

466
00:18:42,710 --> 00:18:40,400
of the levitation hoop too that i think

467
00:18:44,950 --> 00:18:42,720
i developed yeah

468
00:18:46,470 --> 00:18:44,960
but i'm not sure i'm not sure i i may

469
00:18:50,470 --> 00:18:46,480
have seen them someplace

470
00:18:54,230 --> 00:18:50,480
i have learned one thing richard

471
00:18:57,110 --> 00:18:54,240
much to my chagrin sometimes

472
00:18:58,470 --> 00:18:57,120
people don't have a good memory of what

473
00:19:00,470 --> 00:18:58,480
really happened

474
00:19:03,350 --> 00:19:00,480
well that's in their lives that's true

475
00:19:06,630 --> 00:19:03,360
give you a good example of it

476
00:19:09,590 --> 00:19:06,640
the my 11th uh book

477
00:19:11,029 --> 00:19:09,600
a magician in the laboratory was first

478
00:19:14,789 --> 00:19:11,039
of all going to be done by

479
00:19:17,350 --> 00:19:14,799
a young lady in in

480
00:19:18,150 --> 00:19:17,360
new york and she had to give up the

481
00:19:22,070 --> 00:19:18,160
project

482
00:19:24,549 --> 00:19:22,080
so uh then kind of pen and tell her

483
00:19:25,990 --> 00:19:24,559
i wanted to and take it over and then he

484
00:19:28,950 --> 00:19:26,000
got too busy to do it

485
00:19:31,029 --> 00:19:28,960
so massimo pulidoro oh he's a nice man

486
00:19:34,230 --> 00:19:31,039
he's a lovely fellow

487
00:19:36,789 --> 00:19:34,240
english and italian now one night so

488
00:19:38,549 --> 00:19:36,799
he's a charming oh just absolutely when

489
00:19:40,150 --> 00:19:38,559
he came to stay with me in florida

490
00:19:42,549 --> 00:19:40,160
and he stayed moving in florida for

491
00:19:43,990 --> 00:19:42,559
about a year or so but he learned most

492
00:19:46,950 --> 00:19:44,000
of his english

493
00:19:50,150 --> 00:19:46,960
uh in florida just by watching

494
00:19:52,230 --> 00:19:50,160
television and and such you know

495
00:19:53,750 --> 00:19:52,240
brilliant he really picked it up yeah

496
00:19:56,470 --> 00:19:53,760
and now

497
00:19:57,510 --> 00:19:56,480
his use of english i very seldom hear

498
00:20:00,070 --> 00:19:57,520
and make a mistake

499
00:20:01,350 --> 00:20:00,080
or see it in print very solid even in

500
00:20:03,270 --> 00:20:01,360
punctuation

501
00:20:05,909 --> 00:20:03,280
he's uh very accomplished in that

502
00:20:08,950 --> 00:20:05,919
respect anyway massimo polidoro is now

503
00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:08,960
doing it our has done it essentially and

504
00:20:12,950 --> 00:20:09,840
i'm just

505
00:20:15,110 --> 00:20:12,960
brushing it up a bit for content

506
00:20:17,270 --> 00:20:15,120
kim called me one day a couple of years

507
00:20:19,750 --> 00:20:17,280
ago about three years ago now

508
00:20:21,270 --> 00:20:19,760
and she said your first jailbreak and

509
00:20:21,909 --> 00:20:21,280
now she was still doing research on the

510
00:20:24,710 --> 00:20:21,919
book

511
00:20:25,990 --> 00:20:24,720
at that time you see and i said yeah

512
00:20:28,630 --> 00:20:26,000
said quebec city

513
00:20:29,590 --> 00:20:28,640
and i said oh yeah and she said you

514
00:20:32,870 --> 00:20:29,600
remember it well

515
00:20:36,310 --> 00:20:32,880
i said oh yeah in detail if well it

516
00:20:39,510 --> 00:20:37,909
i said what do you mean i know it was

517
00:20:41,430 --> 00:20:39,520
quebec city i remember the jail very

518
00:20:43,270 --> 00:20:41,440
well i remember the whole procedure

519
00:20:45,029 --> 00:20:43,280
i stood up on the bench by the the

520
00:20:46,390 --> 00:20:45,039
window and the handcuffs were placed

521
00:20:49,110 --> 00:20:46,400
around the barns and

522
00:20:50,950 --> 00:20:49,120
i remember it very distinctly said no no

523
00:20:54,870 --> 00:20:50,960
it was in lachine quebec

524
00:20:56,710 --> 00:20:54,880
which is a very small town in quebec

525
00:20:58,630 --> 00:20:56,720
i said what are you talking about she

526
00:21:00,630 --> 00:20:58,640
said i'm sending you a newspaper

527
00:21:02,870 --> 00:21:00,640
clipping

528
00:21:05,190 --> 00:21:02,880
she'd scanned it and my computer started

529
00:21:09,510 --> 00:21:05,200
to chatter and

530
00:21:11,350 --> 00:21:09,520
lachine quebec randy savada le prison de

531
00:21:14,630 --> 00:21:11,360
quebec

532
00:21:16,630 --> 00:21:14,640
the the amazing i wasn't using amazing

533
00:21:19,270 --> 00:21:16,640
at that point but the astonishing randy

534
00:21:23,029 --> 00:21:19,280
would be a literal translation right

535
00:21:24,470 --> 00:21:23,039
escapes from the from the quebec prison

536
00:21:26,710 --> 00:21:24,480
that was the corvette prison but it

537
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:26,720
wasn't in quebec city it was in lachine

538
00:21:33,830 --> 00:21:30,480
which is about 120 miles away

539
00:21:35,830 --> 00:21:33,840
and my memory of the thing was wrong

540
00:21:37,510 --> 00:21:35,840
absolutely wrong the business of the

541
00:21:38,950 --> 00:21:37,520
handcuffs and the that was a different

542
00:21:42,070 --> 00:21:38,960
jail altogether

543
00:21:44,230 --> 00:21:42,080
but i i was i was flabbergasted i didn't

544
00:21:46,390 --> 00:21:44,240
know what said

545
00:21:48,310 --> 00:21:46,400
she said no no she said this is because

546
00:21:49,190 --> 00:21:48,320
when you tell a story and tell it again

547
00:21:51,590 --> 00:21:49,200
and again and again

548
00:21:53,510 --> 00:21:51,600
it's the last telling of it yeah that

549
00:21:55,590 --> 00:21:53,520
replaces everything in your brain on

550
00:21:57,270 --> 00:21:55,600
and that is true that's true and i have

551
00:21:57,990 --> 00:21:57,280
checked this with a psychologist and

552
00:22:00,789 --> 00:21:58,000
they say yes

553
00:22:02,710 --> 00:22:00,799
yes for some reason and they they say it

554
00:22:03,909 --> 00:22:02,720
seems to be a very negative thing about

555
00:22:06,390 --> 00:22:03,919
the human brain

556
00:22:07,510 --> 00:22:06,400
that that will replace previous versions

557
00:22:09,430 --> 00:22:07,520
of it well

558
00:22:10,630 --> 00:22:09,440
we live in an interesting age where we

559
00:22:13,430 --> 00:22:10,640
do have records

560
00:22:14,549 --> 00:22:13,440
yes accurate past events yeah whereas

561
00:22:15,990 --> 00:22:14,559
our ancestors

562
00:22:17,510 --> 00:22:16,000
no no we didn't have that very thing our

563
00:22:18,070 --> 00:22:17,520
brains didn't evolve to even worry about

564
00:22:20,230 --> 00:22:18,080
this right

565
00:22:21,510 --> 00:22:20,240
and and the point is that they could be

566
00:22:23,510 --> 00:22:21,520
very very wrong

567
00:22:25,110 --> 00:22:23,520
and still be telling the truth yes

568
00:22:27,190 --> 00:22:25,120
telling the truth as they

569
00:22:28,710 --> 00:22:27,200
i understood it yes i never lied about

570
00:22:30,630 --> 00:22:28,720
it being quebec city

571
00:22:32,789 --> 00:22:30,640
no of course not this is this is

572
00:22:35,750 --> 00:22:32,799
something that i always try to impart

573
00:22:36,630 --> 00:22:35,760
or impress upon people who have been to

574
00:22:38,870 --> 00:22:36,640
a psychic

575
00:22:39,669 --> 00:22:38,880
yes now you may well recall talking

576
00:22:42,710 --> 00:22:39,679
about memory

577
00:22:43,110 --> 00:22:42,720
yeah maureen flynn who was a guest oh

578
00:22:48,310 --> 00:22:43,120
yes

579
00:22:50,950 --> 00:22:48,320
on the program with me in uh in the uk

580
00:22:51,510 --> 00:22:50,960
and grenada and there's a part of that

581
00:22:53,750 --> 00:22:51,520
show

582
00:22:55,430 --> 00:22:53,760
um i might have watched it a few times

583
00:22:58,470 --> 00:22:55,440
yeah you understand

584
00:22:59,830 --> 00:22:58,480
where she's there with you

585
00:23:02,230 --> 00:22:59,840
there's a man in the audience who has a

586
00:23:03,029 --> 00:23:02,240
reading and you're reading out the list

587
00:23:06,549 --> 00:23:03,039
of names

588
00:23:10,470 --> 00:23:06,559
she used harry michael jim

589
00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:12,390
do people remember accurately what takes

590
00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:13,840
place in a reading

591
00:23:18,390 --> 00:23:16,400
well we have with us tonight mr rod beal

592
00:23:20,149 --> 00:23:18,400
mr bill you're a satisfied client of

593
00:23:21,830 --> 00:23:20,159
marines i understand is that correct

594
00:23:23,510 --> 00:23:21,840
yeah she did a reading for you not too

595
00:23:25,430 --> 00:23:23,520
long ago which i understand you think is

596
00:23:27,190 --> 00:23:25,440
is a very good reading yes she did a few

597
00:23:28,630 --> 00:23:27,200
simple questions if i made first of all

598
00:23:30,070 --> 00:23:28,640
how long did the thing last first of all

599
00:23:30,789 --> 00:23:30,080
there was about half an hour about half

600
00:23:32,630 --> 00:23:30,799
an hour

601
00:23:35,190 --> 00:23:32,640
uh how many names pardon me did she give

602
00:23:37,669 --> 00:23:35,200
you during that period of half an hour

603
00:23:39,350 --> 00:23:37,679
probably half a dozen about half a dozen

604
00:23:41,269 --> 00:23:39,360
and did they all hit

605
00:23:43,269 --> 00:23:41,279
not everyone how many of you they had a

606
00:23:45,830 --> 00:23:43,279
similar sounding like

607
00:23:47,029 --> 00:23:45,840
dory mooring that type of thing well you

608
00:23:48,950 --> 00:23:47,039
were kind enough to give us a tape

609
00:23:50,390 --> 00:23:48,960
recording of that reading done by

610
00:23:51,510 --> 00:23:50,400
maureen flynn for you and for your

611
00:23:54,149 --> 00:23:51,520
information

612
00:23:56,070 --> 00:23:54,159
during your reading maureen flynn tried

613
00:23:58,149 --> 00:23:56,080
these names and they are on the tape of

614
00:24:01,990 --> 00:23:58,159
the reading that you're referring to

615
00:24:05,590 --> 00:24:02,000
alan alfred alice ann bill charlie

616
00:24:09,110 --> 00:24:05,600
colin connie david derrick eileen

617
00:24:12,710 --> 00:24:09,120
ellen flory frank fred george

618
00:24:16,470 --> 00:24:12,720
jim joe john karen katherine

619
00:24:19,909 --> 00:24:16,480
kevin lillian lisa liz

620
00:24:23,510 --> 00:24:19,919
lynn mark mary may michael

621
00:24:27,269 --> 00:24:23,520
robb ron shirley sydney stanley

622
00:24:28,870 --> 00:24:27,279
sid and steve that's 37 names and she

623
00:24:29,750 --> 00:24:28,880
also asked you if you could connect with

624
00:24:32,549 --> 00:24:29,760
any name

625
00:24:33,830 --> 00:24:32,559
beginning with an n or an l and you

626
00:24:36,149 --> 00:24:33,840
could not do so

627
00:24:36,950 --> 00:24:36,159
now uh and the ones that were accepted

628
00:24:40,789 --> 00:24:36,960
you did accept

629
00:24:42,630 --> 00:24:40,799
nine of the 37 that were given

630
00:24:43,830 --> 00:24:42,640
these were some of the categories a son

631
00:24:46,710 --> 00:24:43,840
a lodger a brother

632
00:24:48,470 --> 00:24:46,720
a nephew an adopted nephew a grandfather

633
00:24:51,269 --> 00:24:48,480
a fellow worker a cousin

634
00:24:52,470 --> 00:24:51,279
and the neighbor's dog that's right out

635
00:24:53,909 --> 00:24:52,480
of context i'm sorry

636
00:24:55,669 --> 00:24:53,919
right out of context we have a

637
00:24:57,510 --> 00:24:55,679
transcript of it right here sir and you

638
00:24:59,669 --> 00:24:57,520
may have that transcript to refer to it

639
00:25:00,950 --> 00:24:59,679
and the names i think are outlined there

640
00:25:03,430 --> 00:25:00,960
all 37 of them

641
00:25:05,909 --> 00:25:03,440
you can i analyze anything you can

642
00:25:06,710 --> 00:25:05,919
analyze encyclopedia britannica mr beal

643
00:25:09,669 --> 00:25:06,720
is here

644
00:25:09,990 --> 00:25:09,679
because he felt that what he actually

645
00:25:12,710 --> 00:25:10,000
got

646
00:25:13,350 --> 00:25:12,720
on that tape made sense to him very much

647
00:25:14,950 --> 00:25:13,360
so

648
00:25:17,269 --> 00:25:14,960
yeah that was very effective classic

649
00:25:19,830 --> 00:25:17,279
example of he was telling the truth

650
00:25:21,110 --> 00:25:19,840
oh yeah no no absolutely because he was

651
00:25:23,750 --> 00:25:21,120
just a little annoyed that i

652
00:25:24,390 --> 00:25:23,760
i doubted him you see and then as i was

653
00:25:26,470 --> 00:25:24,400
reading

654
00:25:28,070 --> 00:25:26,480
the thing i i wasn't looking at him of

655
00:25:29,990 --> 00:25:28,080
course i was reading from the list

656
00:25:31,350 --> 00:25:30,000
and the audience was fidgeting now oh

657
00:25:32,710 --> 00:25:31,360
let me tell you about that that's a

658
00:25:34,710 --> 00:25:32,720
little bit of an aside

659
00:25:37,430 --> 00:25:34,720
you know where that audience came from

660
00:25:40,390 --> 00:25:37,440
in the studio no

661
00:25:41,430 --> 00:25:40,400
we're not at television stupidly

662
00:25:43,510 --> 00:25:41,440
advertised

663
00:25:44,630 --> 00:25:43,520
for people who are fans of psychic

664
00:25:47,830 --> 00:25:44,640
phenomena

665
00:25:51,750 --> 00:25:47,840
come and be our our studio audience they

666
00:25:53,510 --> 00:25:51,760
hated me they hated me

667
00:25:56,390 --> 00:25:53,520
there were very few people in that

668
00:25:59,029 --> 00:25:56,400
audience they were all sitting there

669
00:26:00,549 --> 00:25:59,039
like this sort of thing they didn't want

670
00:26:01,510 --> 00:26:00,559
any part of it at all they were the

671
00:26:03,590 --> 00:26:01,520
grumpiest and

672
00:26:05,350 --> 00:26:03,600
most unresponsive audience that i ever

673
00:26:06,870 --> 00:26:05,360
had in my life because they'd answered

674
00:26:09,430 --> 00:26:06,880
this advertisement yeah

675
00:26:10,070 --> 00:26:09,440
well i had a slightly similar thing when

676
00:26:14,870 --> 00:26:10,080
i was doing my

677
00:26:17,750 --> 00:26:14,880
series here um yeah yeah which was

678
00:26:18,789 --> 00:26:17,760
eight nine ten oh 10 12 13 episodes i

679
00:26:20,470 --> 00:26:18,799
can't remember now

680
00:26:22,230 --> 00:26:20,480
where a lot of the audience coming in

681
00:26:22,470 --> 00:26:22,240
were fans of the contestants who were

682
00:26:25,669 --> 00:26:22,480
all

683
00:26:27,669 --> 00:26:25,679
yeah yeah yeah and i was sitting there

684
00:26:31,029 --> 00:26:27,679
in my chair and the audience was around

685
00:26:32,549 --> 00:26:31,039
during the day you know what it's like

686
00:26:34,149 --> 00:26:32,559
and i'm sitting there and i'm looking

687
00:26:36,789 --> 00:26:34,159
over the court of mine there's one man

688
00:26:40,230 --> 00:26:36,799
who's doing this to me

689
00:26:41,350 --> 00:26:40,240
the whole taping just burning me staring

690
00:26:43,350 --> 00:26:41,360
at me

691
00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:43,360
obviously either trying to read my mind

692
00:26:45,750 --> 00:26:45,360
or put me on i'll report you often

693
00:26:47,990 --> 00:26:45,760
something

694
00:26:49,350 --> 00:26:48,000
yeah yeah and uh i would get into very

695
00:26:50,789 --> 00:26:49,360
interesting discussions during the

696
00:26:51,430 --> 00:26:50,799
commercial breaks and the breaks and

697
00:26:53,909 --> 00:26:51,440
with

698
00:26:55,350 --> 00:26:53,919
the audience members who were but i i

699
00:26:55,750 --> 00:26:55,360
tried to be friendly i'd go up and say

700
00:26:57,590 --> 00:26:55,760
hello

701
00:26:59,190 --> 00:26:57,600
i'm richard i'm pleased to see you here

702
00:27:01,110 --> 00:26:59,200
in the audience and a lot of well i'm

703
00:27:02,549 --> 00:27:01,120
not pleased to see you yeah yeah well i

704
00:27:04,390 --> 00:27:02,559
got i got a little bit of that you know

705
00:27:05,110 --> 00:27:04,400
how what are you doing here you skeptic

706
00:27:08,310 --> 00:27:05,120
sort of thing

707
00:27:10,149 --> 00:27:08,320
yeah yeah oh yeah yeah yeah so well

708
00:27:12,230 --> 00:27:10,159
because that was it selected the

709
00:27:15,669 --> 00:27:12,240
audience from believers

710
00:27:17,350 --> 00:27:15,679
and it was a big boo-boo yeah the reason

711
00:27:17,990 --> 00:27:17,360
they didn't continue the series by the

712
00:27:20,389 --> 00:27:18,000
way

713
00:27:21,430 --> 00:27:20,399
with granada was because no one win the

714
00:27:24,549 --> 00:27:21,440
won the prize

715
00:27:26,310 --> 00:27:24,559
yeah come on they were they

716
00:27:27,830 --> 00:27:26,320
expecting that someone is going to win

717
00:27:30,149 --> 00:27:27,840
the prize probably

718
00:27:31,750 --> 00:27:30,159
yes i believe producers will probably

719
00:27:33,430 --> 00:27:31,760
think yes because that's the way a

720
00:27:35,990 --> 00:27:33,440
television program is at the end of the

721
00:27:37,990 --> 00:27:36,000
series this person has won the prize

722
00:27:39,190 --> 00:27:38,000
wonderful so maybe she thought that

723
00:27:41,350 --> 00:27:39,200
there would be

724
00:27:42,630 --> 00:27:41,360
i'm pleased you did because as i said

725
00:27:43,350 --> 00:27:42,640
it's doing the rounds of the internet

726
00:27:47,269 --> 00:27:43,360
and some great

727
00:27:50,789 --> 00:27:50,230
if i shut my eyes and listen to that

728
00:27:52,630 --> 00:27:50,799
interview

729
00:27:54,310 --> 00:27:52,640
it's just like i'm back on tour again

730
00:28:03,240 --> 00:27:54,320
with james randy

731
00:28:09,590 --> 00:28:03,250
what an experience that was

732
00:28:13,190 --> 00:28:11,909
hey fellow skeptics ben radford here

733
00:28:14,710 --> 00:28:13,200
with celestia ward

734
00:28:17,110 --> 00:28:14,720
your friendly host of squaring the

735
00:28:19,830 --> 00:28:17,120
strange a podcast that looks at topics

736
00:28:22,149 --> 00:28:19,840
ranging from legends panics and cryptids

737
00:28:23,909 --> 00:28:22,159
to media myths psychology and folklore

738
00:28:24,470 --> 00:28:23,919
breaking things down and picking things

739
00:28:26,549 --> 00:28:24,480
apart

740
00:28:28,389 --> 00:28:26,559
as we skeptics do we bring a few

741
00:28:30,230 --> 00:28:28,399
different perspectives on things

742
00:28:32,470 --> 00:28:30,240
celestia for example is a witty

743
00:28:34,470 --> 00:28:32,480
cartoonist and ben is a brilliant writer

744
00:28:36,470 --> 00:28:34,480
and long time skeptical investigator

745
00:28:38,549 --> 00:28:36,480
we don't always agree but we have fun

746
00:28:40,950 --> 00:28:38,559
trying and we learn new things

747
00:28:43,110 --> 00:28:40,960
join us for new topics every week or two

748
00:28:44,549 --> 00:28:43,120
or browse our backlog of evergreen

749
00:28:47,269 --> 00:28:44,559
episodes available

750
00:28:47,990 --> 00:28:47,279
on itunes and all your podcast feeding

751
00:28:56,830 --> 00:28:48,000
troughs

752
00:29:10,830 --> 00:28:58,020
bye-bye

753
00:29:17,269 --> 00:29:12,120
do

754
00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:17,279
[Music]

755
00:29:22,310 --> 00:29:18,810
logical fallacies

756
00:29:25,110 --> 00:29:22,320
[Music]

757
00:29:26,950 --> 00:29:25,120
what are logical fallacies and why is it

758
00:29:29,590 --> 00:29:26,960
important that critical thinkers should

759
00:29:31,909 --> 00:29:29,600
know about them

760
00:29:33,590 --> 00:29:31,919
a logical fallacy is an error we can

761
00:29:35,590 --> 00:29:33,600
make in reasoning

762
00:29:39,990 --> 00:29:35,600
but it usually crops up when we are

763
00:29:42,070 --> 00:29:40,000
discussing or arguing our point of view

764
00:29:44,310 --> 00:29:42,080
some people might even knowingly use

765
00:29:45,190 --> 00:29:44,320
them to try and score cheap points in an

766
00:29:48,470 --> 00:29:45,200
argument

767
00:29:51,029 --> 00:29:48,480
due to intellectual laziness

768
00:29:52,870 --> 00:29:51,039
they are traps we can fall into but if

769
00:29:54,950 --> 00:29:52,880
we know what to look out for

770
00:30:01,110 --> 00:29:54,960
we can spot them when they occur and

771
00:30:05,510 --> 00:30:03,230
this time we'll look at the hasty

772
00:30:08,230 --> 00:30:05,520
generalization fallacy

773
00:30:08,950 --> 00:30:08,240
also known as the argument from small

774
00:30:12,230 --> 00:30:08,960
numbers

775
00:30:15,110 --> 00:30:12,240
and the lonely fact fallacy

776
00:30:15,909 --> 00:30:15,120
this is when you base your conclusion on

777
00:30:19,669 --> 00:30:15,919
limited

778
00:30:22,149 --> 00:30:19,679
or inconclusive information

779
00:30:24,870 --> 00:30:22,159
it's very easy for us to accept limited

780
00:30:26,549 --> 00:30:24,880
information or examples when we already

781
00:30:29,990 --> 00:30:26,559
believe in the premise

782
00:30:31,669 --> 00:30:30,000
claim or point of view but getting to

783
00:30:33,909 --> 00:30:31,679
the truth of the matter

784
00:30:36,389 --> 00:30:33,919
often means wading through a great deal

785
00:30:39,430 --> 00:30:36,399
of examples and results

786
00:30:40,389 --> 00:30:39,440
did you see that psychic on live tv the

787
00:30:43,350 --> 00:30:40,399
other night

788
00:30:46,549 --> 00:30:43,360
a skeptic held up a sealed envelope with

789
00:30:48,389 --> 00:30:46,559
a number from one to ten written inside

790
00:30:49,830 --> 00:30:48,399
the psychic predicted the number would

791
00:30:53,590 --> 00:30:49,840
be

792
00:30:56,870 --> 00:30:53,600
and she was right she truly has

793
00:30:59,350 --> 00:30:56,880
amazing powers in this case

794
00:31:01,269 --> 00:30:59,360
the so-called psychic had a 1 in 10

795
00:31:02,789 --> 00:31:01,279
chance of simply guessing the right

796
00:31:05,350 --> 00:31:02,799
number

797
00:31:07,110 --> 00:31:05,360
in order to draw any real conclusions

798
00:31:09,990 --> 00:31:07,120
about her alleged powers

799
00:31:10,630 --> 00:31:10,000
this test would need to be repeated many

800
00:31:14,310 --> 00:31:10,640
times

801
00:31:16,870 --> 00:31:14,320
and under proper scientific conditions

802
00:31:18,070 --> 00:31:16,880
these sorts of tests can take up quite a

803
00:31:22,310 --> 00:31:18,080
lot of time

804
00:31:25,029 --> 00:31:22,320
especially on live tv in a recent survey

805
00:31:25,990 --> 00:31:25,039
eighty percent of people questioned said

806
00:31:28,310 --> 00:31:26,000
that they did not

807
00:31:29,350 --> 00:31:28,320
trust that vaccinations were safe and

808
00:31:32,710 --> 00:31:29,360
effective

809
00:31:36,710 --> 00:31:32,720
eighty percent is a strong result

810
00:31:40,549 --> 00:31:36,720
or is it the question we must ask is

811
00:31:43,509 --> 00:31:40,559
how many people took part in the survey

812
00:31:44,230 --> 00:31:43,519
if only five people took part then it

813
00:31:46,389 --> 00:31:44,240
only took

814
00:31:48,230 --> 00:31:46,399
four of them to give the 80 percent

815
00:31:51,269 --> 00:31:48,240
result

816
00:31:53,509 --> 00:31:51,279
a survey with only five people is

817
00:31:57,110 --> 00:31:53,519
hardly enough to draw any real

818
00:32:00,149 --> 00:31:57,120
conclusions about society in general

819
00:32:03,350 --> 00:32:00,159
in order to test a water diviner we

820
00:32:06,389 --> 00:32:03,360
set up 10 sealed buckets

821
00:32:09,909 --> 00:32:06,399
some with water inside some with sand

822
00:32:11,750 --> 00:32:09,919
we planned to run 10 rounds giving us a

823
00:32:14,549 --> 00:32:11,760
score out of 100

824
00:32:17,190 --> 00:32:14,559
but after failing the very first round

825
00:32:19,990 --> 00:32:17,200
the water diviner stormed off

826
00:32:21,029 --> 00:32:20,000
in a huff once again we can see that

827
00:32:24,549 --> 00:32:21,039
water divining

828
00:32:26,230 --> 00:32:24,559
does not work this example is based on

829
00:32:29,430 --> 00:32:26,240
real events

830
00:32:31,909 --> 00:32:29,440
while it's fair to say that as of yet no

831
00:32:33,750 --> 00:32:31,919
water diviner has passed a test of their

832
00:32:36,310 --> 00:32:33,760
claimed powers

833
00:32:37,190 --> 00:32:36,320
in this case the result would be null

834
00:32:40,389 --> 00:32:37,200
and void

835
00:32:42,870 --> 00:32:40,399
as the test was not completed

836
00:32:44,070 --> 00:32:42,880
so it would be incorrect to conclude

837
00:32:46,389 --> 00:32:44,080
that this diviner

838
00:32:47,509 --> 00:32:46,399
is necessarily lacking in claimed

839
00:32:51,140 --> 00:32:47,519
ability

840
00:32:53,430 --> 00:32:51,150
based on an incomplete test

841
00:32:55,509 --> 00:32:53,440
[Music]

842
00:32:56,549 --> 00:32:55,519
limited results that appear to support

843
00:32:59,990 --> 00:32:56,559
our point of view

844
00:33:00,549 --> 00:33:00,000
are very easy to accept although it can

845
00:33:04,070 --> 00:33:00,559
require

846
00:33:07,029 --> 00:33:04,080
more time and effort generally speaking

847
00:33:07,269 --> 00:33:07,039
the more data points you have the better

848
00:33:12,980 --> 00:33:07,279
it

849
00:33:17,990 --> 00:33:15,830
[Music]

850
00:33:20,549 --> 00:33:18,000
knowing a logical fallacy when you hear

851
00:33:22,830 --> 00:33:20,559
one and even knowing its name

852
00:33:24,149 --> 00:33:22,840
is important when arguing your point of

853
00:33:27,590 --> 00:33:24,159
view

854
00:33:29,990 --> 00:33:27,600
however you may come across as arrogant

855
00:33:30,789 --> 00:33:30,000
and not get very far if you call it out

856
00:33:33,110 --> 00:33:30,799
by name

857
00:33:35,190 --> 00:33:33,120
to your opponent when you hear it being

858
00:33:37,669 --> 00:33:35,200
used

859
00:33:38,549 --> 00:33:37,679
if your opponent calls you out for using

860
00:33:40,789 --> 00:33:38,559
one

861
00:33:43,830 --> 00:33:40,799
it's time to stop and think about how

862
00:33:45,990 --> 00:33:43,840
you are making your case

863
00:33:47,190 --> 00:33:46,000
use your knowledge of logical fallacies

864
00:33:49,909 --> 00:33:47,200
wisely

865
00:33:51,190 --> 00:33:49,919
and remember that even if your point of

866
00:33:53,509 --> 00:33:51,200
view is right

867
00:33:54,789 --> 00:33:53,519
and you know all the pitfalls in arguing

868
00:33:57,269 --> 00:33:54,799
your case

869
00:33:58,470 --> 00:33:57,279
it doesn't always mean you'll win on the

870
00:34:01,750 --> 00:33:58,480
day

871
00:34:07,350 --> 00:34:01,760
and as skeptics we must also remember

872
00:34:09,109 --> 00:34:07,360
that we too can be wrong at times

873
00:34:20,470 --> 00:34:09,119
i'm michelle bickersma from the vic

874
00:34:23,349 --> 00:34:20,480
skeptics thanks for listening

875
00:34:24,950 --> 00:34:23,359
skeptics cafe online from victoria

876
00:34:27,349 --> 00:34:24,960
australia

877
00:34:29,990 --> 00:34:27,359
no matter where you are in the world

878
00:34:30,790 --> 00:34:30,000
join us on monday the 16th of november

879
00:34:34,629 --> 00:34:30,800
2020

880
00:34:36,470 --> 00:34:34,639
for a live talk online gary kennedy will

881
00:34:37,750 --> 00:34:36,480
talk about some of the myths around

882
00:34:40,869 --> 00:34:37,760
so-called

883
00:34:42,470 --> 00:34:40,879
superfoods and new fad diet regimes

884
00:34:43,990 --> 00:34:42,480
along with myths spread around

885
00:34:46,710 --> 00:34:44,000
processing technologies

886
00:34:47,750 --> 00:34:46,720
such as food irradiation genetic

887
00:34:51,669 --> 00:34:47,760
engineering

888
00:34:53,990 --> 00:34:51,679
and growing meat in a petri dish

889
00:34:55,270 --> 00:34:54,000
gary kennedy graduated from the school

890
00:34:57,550 --> 00:34:55,280
of food technology

891
00:34:59,109 --> 00:34:57,560
at the university of new south wales in

892
00:35:01,270 --> 00:34:59,119
1984.

893
00:35:02,550 --> 00:35:01,280
he has worked in hospitals and meat

894
00:35:05,589 --> 00:35:02,560
works and

895
00:35:09,589 --> 00:35:05,599
as a food safety trainer and food

896
00:35:12,870 --> 00:35:09,599
safety auditor join us via zoom

897
00:35:13,990 --> 00:35:12,880
8 pm for a chat then the talk begins at

898
00:35:17,829 --> 00:35:14,000
8 30 pm

899
00:35:21,430 --> 00:35:17,839
australian eastern daylight time

900
00:35:24,790 --> 00:35:21,440
that's 9am on the 16th uk time

901
00:35:28,829 --> 00:35:24,800
1am on the 16th west coast usa

902
00:35:31,670 --> 00:35:28,839
and 4 am on the 16th east coast

903
00:35:34,510 --> 00:35:31,680
usa for more information

904
00:35:36,870 --> 00:35:34,520
and the zoom link just head to

905
00:35:38,490 --> 00:35:36,880
facebook.com

906
00:35:41,109 --> 00:35:38,500
the skeptics cafe

907
00:35:44,150 --> 00:35:41,119
[Music]

908
00:36:04,390 --> 00:35:44,160
see you there

909
00:36:06,310 --> 00:36:04,400
[Music]

910
00:36:08,310 --> 00:36:06,320
now it's time to look at the australian

911
00:36:13,030 --> 00:36:08,320
skeptics newsletter

912
00:36:15,670 --> 00:36:13,040
number 110.

913
00:36:17,990 --> 00:36:15,680
and this arrived in my inbox on the 3rd

914
00:36:21,270 --> 00:36:18,000
of november 2020

915
00:36:22,630 --> 00:36:21,280
hi all and says skepticon 2020 was a

916
00:36:25,349 --> 00:36:22,640
great success with an

917
00:36:26,230 --> 00:36:25,359
extremely high standard of presenters

918
00:36:27,990 --> 00:36:26,240
congratulations

919
00:36:29,349 --> 00:36:28,000
to the gold coast skeptics for doing a

920
00:36:31,670 --> 00:36:29,359
sterling job

921
00:36:33,190 --> 00:36:31,680
and if you missed it well you can still

922
00:36:35,510 --> 00:36:33,200
buy a ticket and see all the

923
00:36:37,510 --> 00:36:35,520
presentations at your own speed

924
00:36:39,990 --> 00:36:37,520
they will be available online for

925
00:36:42,710 --> 00:36:40,000
another year but one good news piece is

926
00:36:43,670 --> 00:36:42,720
matched by a sad one with the passing of

927
00:36:47,430 --> 00:36:43,680
james randy

928
00:36:49,349 --> 00:36:47,440
skeptic skeptic he will be missed

929
00:36:50,710 --> 00:36:49,359
and the newsletter goes on skeptic's

930
00:36:52,310 --> 00:36:50,720
annual awards

931
00:36:53,990 --> 00:36:52,320
the annual skeptics awards were

932
00:36:56,230 --> 00:36:54,000
presented during skepticon

933
00:36:58,550 --> 00:36:56,240
paleo pete got the bent spoon the first

934
00:37:00,870 --> 00:36:58,560
person ever to win it twice

935
00:37:01,910 --> 00:37:00,880
and could there be a more deserving

936
00:37:04,710 --> 00:37:01,920
person

937
00:37:06,630 --> 00:37:04,720
dr norman swann and the abc's science

938
00:37:07,510 --> 00:37:06,640
fiction were joint winners the barry

939
00:37:10,790 --> 00:37:07,520
williams

940
00:37:12,870 --> 00:37:10,800
award for journalism and dr vyom sharma

941
00:37:14,630 --> 00:37:12,880
received the thornet award for the

942
00:37:17,349 --> 00:37:14,640
promotion of reason

943
00:37:19,030 --> 00:37:17,359
skeptic activist and skeptic's own

944
00:37:21,750 --> 00:37:19,040
reporter i might add

945
00:37:23,430 --> 00:37:21,760
mandy lee noble got the big gong of

946
00:37:26,950 --> 00:37:23,440
skeptic of the year

947
00:37:29,750 --> 00:37:26,960
she exposed pete's biocharging machine

948
00:37:30,630 --> 00:37:29,760
quenching her award and his in the same

949
00:37:32,790 --> 00:37:30,640
breath

950
00:37:34,230 --> 00:37:32,800
apparently pete evans fans were tricked

951
00:37:36,950 --> 00:37:34,240
into thinking he

952
00:37:38,870 --> 00:37:36,960
won a positive award when he

953
00:37:41,990 --> 00:37:38,880
sarcastically noted his

954
00:37:44,630 --> 00:37:42,000
victory so much for their ability to be

955
00:37:45,349 --> 00:37:44,640
discerning and look beyond the headline

956
00:37:48,870 --> 00:37:45,359
but

957
00:37:51,190 --> 00:37:48,880
are we surprised by this the daily mail

958
00:37:53,910 --> 00:37:51,200
where this story comes from is not

959
00:37:57,109 --> 00:37:53,920
always seen as a journal of note

960
00:38:00,390 --> 00:37:57,119
but this time they take the big stick

961
00:38:02,870 --> 00:38:00,400
to pete's quantifications

962
00:38:04,069 --> 00:38:02,880
another item says unethical conduct in

963
00:38:05,829 --> 00:38:04,079
the australian

964
00:38:08,870 --> 00:38:05,839
complementary and alternative medicine

965
00:38:09,910 --> 00:38:08,880
market this study by mal vickers and ken

966
00:38:12,230 --> 00:38:09,920
harvey

967
00:38:13,670 --> 00:38:12,240
two noted skeptics life members and past

968
00:38:16,470 --> 00:38:13,680
winners of skeptical year

969
00:38:18,230 --> 00:38:16,480
consists of an analysis of complementary

970
00:38:20,230 --> 00:38:18,240
resolution panel determinations

971
00:38:23,750 --> 00:38:20,240
regarding complementary medicines

972
00:38:24,550 --> 00:38:23,760
from 1999 to 2018 therapeutics goods

973
00:38:27,510 --> 00:38:24,560
administration

974
00:38:28,710 --> 00:38:27,520
tga post marketing surveillance data of

975
00:38:32,870 --> 00:38:28,720
listed products from

976
00:38:35,910 --> 00:38:32,880
2014 to 2018 and a 2018

977
00:38:37,270 --> 00:38:35,920
consumer survey and it's not

978
00:38:39,750 --> 00:38:37,280
complementary

979
00:38:41,910 --> 00:38:39,760
and remember that there are links

980
00:38:45,030 --> 00:38:41,920
associated with all the little

981
00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:45,040
items i'm reading out the next item says

982
00:38:49,430 --> 00:38:47,520
a uk government study says that while

983
00:38:50,230 --> 00:38:49,440
the majority of anti-vaxxers are not

984
00:38:52,790 --> 00:38:50,240
openly

985
00:38:54,150 --> 00:38:52,800
anti-semitic their propensity to

986
00:38:56,630 --> 00:38:54,160
conspiracy theory

987
00:38:58,310 --> 00:38:56,640
especially during the covert pandemic

988
00:39:01,349 --> 00:38:58,320
reduces their resilience

989
00:39:03,270 --> 00:39:01,359
to hatred of jews in nearly all the

990
00:39:06,470 --> 00:39:03,280
facebook groups identified

991
00:39:07,589 --> 00:39:06,480
users were able to see and interact with

992
00:39:10,710 --> 00:39:07,599
anti-semitic

993
00:39:11,829 --> 00:39:10,720
content even when initial posts relating

994
00:39:14,870 --> 00:39:11,839
to the pandemic

995
00:39:17,030 --> 00:39:14,880
did not include any such content

996
00:39:18,470 --> 00:39:17,040
conversations within the post's comments

997
00:39:21,349 --> 00:39:18,480
section were often

998
00:39:23,430 --> 00:39:21,359
openly anti-semitic and provided an

999
00:39:27,030 --> 00:39:23,440
opportunity for others to be

1000
00:39:28,790 --> 00:39:27,040
radicalized the september 2020 issue of

1001
00:39:30,870 --> 00:39:28,800
the skeptic the journal from australian

1002
00:39:33,190 --> 00:39:30,880
skeptics of course

1003
00:39:34,069 --> 00:39:33,200
includes a major feature on the current

1004
00:39:36,230 --> 00:39:34,079
trend in

1005
00:39:38,230 --> 00:39:36,240
sovereign citizens the history the

1006
00:39:39,750 --> 00:39:38,240
constitutional issues the legal and

1007
00:39:42,870 --> 00:39:39,760
health impacts

1008
00:39:44,790 --> 00:39:42,880
who they are and why they do it

1009
00:39:48,150 --> 00:39:44,800
plus the usual panopy of the interesting

1010
00:39:50,710 --> 00:39:48,160
and the weird the worrisome and the fun

1011
00:39:52,069 --> 00:39:50,720
including a major retrospective of one

1012
00:39:55,430 --> 00:39:52,079
of australia's premier

1013
00:39:58,870 --> 00:39:55,440
ufo encounters and

1014
00:40:03,030 --> 00:39:58,880
it also provides a link to one of the

1015
00:40:05,030 --> 00:40:03,040
recent reports you can read for yourself

1016
00:40:07,990 --> 00:40:05,040
we are currently working on the december

1017
00:40:11,430 --> 00:40:08,000
issue so if you haven't subscribed

1018
00:40:13,230 --> 00:40:11,440
or re-subscribed you should do that asap

1019
00:40:14,950 --> 00:40:13,240
and of course you can do that at

1020
00:40:17,349 --> 00:40:14,960
skeptics.com.edu

1021
00:40:18,710 --> 00:40:17,359
and some upcoming events include

1022
00:40:22,309 --> 00:40:18,720
skeptics cafe

1023
00:40:24,150 --> 00:40:22,319
from victoria gary kennedy on the myths

1024
00:40:28,069 --> 00:40:24,160
around so-called superfoods

1025
00:40:31,510 --> 00:40:28,079
and fad diets we also have a

1026
00:40:33,349 --> 00:40:31,520
skeptics in the pub in perth

1027
00:40:35,670 --> 00:40:33,359
and links to canberra skeptics gold

1028
00:40:37,670 --> 00:40:35,680
coast skeptics queensland skeptics

1029
00:40:39,910 --> 00:40:37,680
and thinking and drinking adelaide

1030
00:40:41,670 --> 00:40:39,920
skeptics in the pub

1031
00:40:43,109 --> 00:40:41,680
and a few items that end off the

1032
00:40:46,230 --> 00:40:43,119
newsletter

1033
00:40:48,470 --> 00:40:46,240
psychic sick of spectral james randy

1034
00:40:50,390 --> 00:40:48,480
i'm sitting here with my crystal ball

1035
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:50,400
trying to see into the future

1036
00:40:55,190 --> 00:40:52,560
and it's hard enough without the ghost

1037
00:40:57,190 --> 00:40:55,200
of james randy hovering in front of me

1038
00:40:59,750 --> 00:40:57,200
and whispering that i'm a fraud and a

1039
00:41:00,950 --> 00:40:59,760
huckster that dude needs to get off my

1040
00:41:04,069 --> 00:41:00,960
case and go heckle

1041
00:41:06,630 --> 00:41:04,079
some other clairvoyant and finally

1042
00:41:07,750 --> 00:41:06,640
big cat mystery in new zealand

1043
00:41:09,510 --> 00:41:07,760
apparently

1044
00:41:10,790 --> 00:41:09,520
a bit of a growing trend across the

1045
00:41:14,710 --> 00:41:10,800
ditch but

1046
00:41:16,950 --> 00:41:14,720
how come people keep dragging out the

1047
00:41:18,790 --> 00:41:16,960
one escaped from a cage and was never

1048
00:41:21,430 --> 00:41:18,800
caught explanation

1049
00:41:21,829 --> 00:41:21,440
you need more than one and even more

1050
00:41:24,790 --> 00:41:21,839
than

1051
00:41:25,910 --> 00:41:24,800
one pregnant one to keep a population

1052
00:41:28,390 --> 00:41:25,920
going

1053
00:41:28,950 --> 00:41:28,400
they don't live forever you know and

1054
00:41:33,270 --> 00:41:28,960
some

1055
00:41:35,030 --> 00:41:33,280
the highlights from the latest

1056
00:41:37,990 --> 00:41:35,040
australian skeptics newsletter

1057
00:41:38,710 --> 00:41:38,000
available at skeptics.com.edu sign up

1058
00:41:52,790 --> 00:41:38,720
and have that

1059
00:41:56,230 --> 00:41:54,950
i'm mick west in my podcast tales from

1060
00:41:57,670 --> 00:41:56,240
the rabbit hole i have extended

1061
00:41:59,510 --> 00:41:57,680
conversations with people who've been

1062
00:42:01,030 --> 00:41:59,520
involved in conspiracy culture

1063
00:42:02,470 --> 00:42:01,040
i do this for a couple of reasons

1064
00:42:03,990 --> 00:42:02,480
firstly because it's really interesting

1065
00:42:05,750 --> 00:42:04,000
these people have great stories about

1066
00:42:07,510 --> 00:42:05,760
how they fell down the conspiracy theory

1067
00:42:09,190 --> 00:42:07,520
rabbit hole what they did down there

1068
00:42:10,470 --> 00:42:09,200
and what it was that helped them out

1069
00:42:12,150 --> 00:42:10,480
sometimes i also talk to people who

1070
00:42:13,750 --> 00:42:12,160
investigate conspiracy theories and they

1071
00:42:14,710 --> 00:42:13,760
have equally fascinating stories from

1072
00:42:16,550 --> 00:42:14,720
the other side

1073
00:42:17,990 --> 00:42:16,560
secondly i want to understand how best

1074
00:42:19,589 --> 00:42:18,000
to prevent the spread of conspiracy

1075
00:42:21,190 --> 00:42:19,599
theorists and misinformation which is an

1076
00:42:23,190 --> 00:42:21,200
increasing problem in a time when

1077
00:42:24,630 --> 00:42:23,200
alternative media is exploding

1078
00:42:26,390 --> 00:42:24,640
the best way to do this is to

1079
00:42:27,109 --> 00:42:26,400
communicate effectively with the people

1080
00:42:28,950 --> 00:42:27,119
involved

1081
00:42:30,630 --> 00:42:28,960
and the best way to do that is with a

1082
00:42:33,960 --> 00:42:30,640
nice long chat

1083
00:42:42,829 --> 00:42:33,970
check it out tales from the rabbit hole

1084
00:42:48,790 --> 00:42:45,440
tftrh.com

1085
00:42:55,030 --> 00:42:52,250
and now a reading from the book of tim

1086
00:43:03,109 --> 00:42:55,040
[Music]

1087
00:43:07,589 --> 00:43:05,510
hi there my name is tim menden i'm the

1088
00:43:08,069 --> 00:43:07,599
executive officer of australian skeptics

1089
00:43:11,349 --> 00:43:08,079
inc

1090
00:43:13,430 --> 00:43:11,359
and editor of our magazine the skeptic

1091
00:43:14,710 --> 00:43:13,440
and today's reading will be coming from

1092
00:43:18,470 --> 00:43:14,720
the skeptic

1093
00:43:20,790 --> 00:43:18,480
june 2017 which is volume 37

1094
00:43:23,030 --> 00:43:20,800
number two and i'll be taking this

1095
00:43:23,990 --> 00:43:23,040
reading from a column called what goes

1096
00:43:25,990 --> 00:43:24,000
around

1097
00:43:27,430 --> 00:43:26,000
which is basically the idea that

1098
00:43:29,589 --> 00:43:27,440
everything is connectable

1099
00:43:31,190 --> 00:43:29,599
you start off in one place work your way

1100
00:43:34,069 --> 00:43:31,200
around through a whole range of facts

1101
00:43:35,030 --> 00:43:34,079
and end up where you came from this

1102
00:43:38,309 --> 00:43:35,040
particular one

1103
00:43:40,450 --> 00:43:38,319
is subtitled doubles backdoors

1104
00:43:44,150 --> 00:43:40,460
lions and fun

1105
00:43:50,550 --> 00:43:47,750
so we start off with the double delusion

1106
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:50,560
the fregoli delusion or the delusion of

1107
00:43:53,430 --> 00:43:51,680
doubles

1108
00:43:55,270 --> 00:43:53,440
is a rare disorder in which a person

1109
00:43:57,109 --> 00:43:55,280
holds a delusional belief

1110
00:43:59,750 --> 00:43:57,119
that different people are in fact a

1111
00:44:01,910 --> 00:43:59,760
single person who changes appearance or

1112
00:44:03,670 --> 00:44:01,920
is in disguise

1113
00:44:06,790 --> 00:44:03,680
syndrome may be related to a brain

1114
00:44:08,470 --> 00:44:06,800
lesion and is often of a paranoid nature

1115
00:44:10,309 --> 00:44:08,480
with the delusional person believing

1116
00:44:11,910 --> 00:44:10,319
themselves persecuted

1117
00:44:13,510 --> 00:44:11,920
by the person they believe is in

1118
00:44:15,910 --> 00:44:13,520
disguise

1119
00:44:16,790 --> 00:44:15,920
the fregoli delusion is classed both as

1120
00:44:30,710 --> 00:44:16,800
a

1121
00:44:34,829 --> 00:44:30,720
involves misidentifying people

1122
00:44:37,430 --> 00:44:34,839
places or objects the 2015 animated film

1123
00:44:38,870 --> 00:44:37,440
animalisa has several direct and

1124
00:44:41,990 --> 00:44:38,880
indirect references

1125
00:44:44,309 --> 00:44:42,000
to fregoli delusion

1126
00:44:46,470 --> 00:44:44,319
delusion and misidentification syndromes

1127
00:44:47,870 --> 00:44:46,480
are psychopathologic phenomena

1128
00:44:49,589 --> 00:44:47,880
it has been suggested that all

1129
00:44:52,710 --> 00:44:49,599
misidentification problems

1130
00:44:53,910 --> 00:44:52,720
exist on a continuum of anomalies of

1131
00:44:56,950 --> 00:44:53,920
familiarity

1132
00:44:58,790 --> 00:44:56,960
from the familiar deja vu at one end to

1133
00:45:00,309 --> 00:44:58,800
the formation of delusional beliefs at

1134
00:45:01,829 --> 00:45:00,319
the other

1135
00:45:05,030 --> 00:45:01,839
the central feature is a patient's

1136
00:45:07,270 --> 00:45:05,040
belief in the existence of the double

1137
00:45:09,270 --> 00:45:07,280
this concept appears frequently in the

1138
00:45:11,109 --> 00:45:09,280
traditions myths literature religious

1139
00:45:13,910 --> 00:45:11,119
beliefs and metaphysical notions

1140
00:45:15,670 --> 00:45:13,920
of all cultural and ethnic groups which

1141
00:45:17,190 --> 00:45:15,680
explains the universality of these

1142
00:45:18,710 --> 00:45:17,200
syndromes

1143
00:45:20,390 --> 00:45:18,720
in a paper published in the american

1144
00:45:23,349 --> 00:45:20,400
journal of alzheimer's disease

1145
00:45:24,950 --> 00:45:23,359
and other dementia researchers suggest

1146
00:45:27,109 --> 00:45:24,960
that robert louis stevenson

1147
00:45:28,150 --> 00:45:27,119
described the experiences of double in

1148
00:45:30,829 --> 00:45:28,160
his novella

1149
00:45:32,309 --> 00:45:30,839
the strange case of dr jekyll and mr

1150
00:45:35,670 --> 00:45:32,319
hyde

1151
00:45:37,750 --> 00:45:35,680
in stevenson's novella published in 1886

1152
00:45:39,109 --> 00:45:37,760
the laboratory of dr jekyll is at the

1153
00:45:40,870 --> 00:45:39,119
rear of a house which

1154
00:45:42,630 --> 00:45:40,880
according to the british library may

1155
00:45:44,150 --> 00:45:42,640
have been based on a house in leicester

1156
00:45:46,790 --> 00:45:44,160
square london

1157
00:45:48,870 --> 00:45:46,800
rented by the famous surgeon john hunter

1158
00:45:52,790 --> 00:45:48,880
who lived from 1728

1159
00:45:53,829 --> 00:45:52,800
to 1793. the house had a back door onto

1160
00:45:55,190 --> 00:45:53,839
a different street

1161
00:45:57,430 --> 00:45:55,200
by which the hyde character would have

1162
00:45:59,510 --> 00:45:57,440
been able to exit the building

1163
00:46:01,030 --> 00:45:59,520
now for australians they might know of

1164
00:46:03,750 --> 00:46:01,040
the john hunter hospital

1165
00:46:05,430 --> 00:46:03,760
in newcastle which is reportedly named

1166
00:46:07,910 --> 00:46:05,440
after three john hunters

1167
00:46:09,670 --> 00:46:07,920
the 18th century surgeon the second

1168
00:46:12,109 --> 00:46:09,680
governor of new south wales

1169
00:46:13,270 --> 00:46:12,119
and an australian anatomist who died in

1170
00:46:15,910 --> 00:46:13,280
1924

1171
00:46:16,710 --> 00:46:15,920
at the age of 26 having already been

1172
00:46:18,950 --> 00:46:16,720
appointed

1173
00:46:20,710 --> 00:46:18,960
to the youngest anatomy professor at the

1174
00:46:23,349 --> 00:46:20,720
university of sydney

1175
00:46:27,030 --> 00:46:23,359
course newcastle also sits on the hunter

1176
00:46:30,630 --> 00:46:28,790
now the john hunter we're interested in

1177
00:46:33,430 --> 00:46:30,640
turned his leicester square house

1178
00:46:34,390 --> 00:46:33,440
into a teaching and public museum with

1179
00:46:37,589 --> 00:46:34,400
nearly 14

1180
00:46:39,430 --> 00:46:37,599
000 preparations of over 500 species of

1181
00:46:42,069 --> 00:46:39,440
plants and animals

1182
00:46:43,589 --> 00:46:42,079
in his earls court country residence as

1183
00:46:46,150 --> 00:46:43,599
it was at the time

1184
00:46:46,950 --> 00:46:46,160
he kept live animals including quote

1185
00:46:50,150 --> 00:46:46,960
fouls

1186
00:46:53,829 --> 00:46:50,160
ducks geese pigeons rabbits

1187
00:46:57,510 --> 00:46:53,839
pigs opossums hedgehog a jackal a zebra

1188
00:47:01,030 --> 00:46:57,520
an ostrich buffaloes leopards dormice

1189
00:47:04,390 --> 00:47:01,040
bats snakes and birds of prey deer fish

1190
00:47:07,190 --> 00:47:04,400
frogs leeches eels and muzzles

1191
00:47:07,990 --> 00:47:07,200
it's pretty eclectic collections he also

1192
00:47:10,390 --> 00:47:08,000
had lions

1193
00:47:11,349 --> 00:47:10,400
some bees a young bull which he used to

1194
00:47:14,950 --> 00:47:11,359
wrestle

1195
00:47:16,950 --> 00:47:14,960
and the skeleton of the irish giant

1196
00:47:17,990 --> 00:47:16,960
which is a famous sort of draw card at

1197
00:47:19,589 --> 00:47:18,000
the time

1198
00:47:21,750 --> 00:47:19,599
the uk government purchased the

1199
00:47:24,150 --> 00:47:21,760
collection in 1799

1200
00:47:27,190 --> 00:47:24,160
and is now part of the hunterian museum

1201
00:47:28,630 --> 00:47:27,200
of the royal college of surgeons

1202
00:47:31,589 --> 00:47:28,640
hunter's leicester square house was

1203
00:47:33,750 --> 00:47:31,599
demolished and replaced by the royal

1204
00:47:36,309 --> 00:47:33,760
panopticon of science at art which

1205
00:47:38,390 --> 00:47:36,319
opened in 1854.

1206
00:47:39,910 --> 00:47:38,400
it featured a fountain with a 100 foot

1207
00:47:42,630 --> 00:47:39,920
central jet of water

1208
00:47:45,349 --> 00:47:42,640
the largest organ in england and a lift

1209
00:47:47,990 --> 00:47:45,359
referred to as an ascending room

1210
00:47:50,150 --> 00:47:48,000
which was pretty novel at the time among

1211
00:47:51,190 --> 00:47:50,160
the displays were an aurora borealis

1212
00:47:53,030 --> 00:47:51,200
apparatus

1213
00:47:54,870 --> 00:47:53,040
which enabled the creation of artificial

1214
00:47:57,190 --> 00:47:54,880
northern lights

1215
00:47:59,589 --> 00:47:57,200
the newspaper the morning post enthused

1216
00:48:01,589 --> 00:47:59,599
that it was the most magnificent

1217
00:48:03,270 --> 00:48:01,599
temple erected for the purposes of

1218
00:48:05,430 --> 00:48:03,280
science

1219
00:48:06,470 --> 00:48:05,440
unfortunately it didn't attract enough

1220
00:48:08,150 --> 00:48:06,480
visitors

1221
00:48:09,750 --> 00:48:08,160
and the owner went bankrupt only two

1222
00:48:11,829 --> 00:48:09,760
years after its opening

1223
00:48:13,750 --> 00:48:11,839
it was then converted into a theater the

1224
00:48:18,470 --> 00:48:13,760
alhambra

1225
00:48:21,430 --> 00:48:18,480
burned down in 1882

1226
00:48:22,790 --> 00:48:21,440
it reopened in 1883 was demolished in

1227
00:48:26,230 --> 00:48:22,800
1936

1228
00:48:27,430 --> 00:48:26,240
and replaced by the odeon theatre alfred

1229
00:48:29,589 --> 00:48:27,440
mull

1230
00:48:30,790 --> 00:48:29,599
who lived in the early part of the 20th

1231
00:48:32,790 --> 00:48:30,800
century

1232
00:48:34,309 --> 00:48:32,800
a music critic for the melbourne age and

1233
00:48:37,109 --> 00:48:34,319
melbourne argus

1234
00:48:38,790 --> 00:48:37,119
and sometime composer moved to london as

1235
00:48:40,309 --> 00:48:38,800
a theatrical agent and managed the

1236
00:48:43,910 --> 00:48:40,319
alhambra on and off

1237
00:48:45,430 --> 00:48:43,920
during the 1890s and early 1900s

1238
00:48:47,589 --> 00:48:45,440
among the acts he brought to the theater

1239
00:48:49,750 --> 00:48:47,599
was a man described as the greatest

1240
00:48:50,870 --> 00:48:49,760
most versatile quick change artist of

1241
00:48:53,430 --> 00:48:50,880
his day

1242
00:48:55,109 --> 00:48:53,440
famous for his extraordinary ability in

1243
00:48:56,870 --> 00:48:55,119
impersonations and his quickness in

1244
00:48:58,710 --> 00:48:56,880
exchanging roles

1245
00:49:00,549 --> 00:48:58,720
so much so that while he was performing

1246
00:49:01,990 --> 00:49:00,559
in london in the 1890s

1247
00:49:03,589 --> 00:49:02,000
rumors spread that there was more than

1248
00:49:06,470 --> 00:49:03,599
one of him

1249
00:49:07,829 --> 00:49:06,480
leopoldo frigoli's name was used to

1250
00:49:09,990 --> 00:49:07,839
describe a disorder

1251
00:49:12,950 --> 00:49:10,000
where one person appears in different

1252
00:49:15,940 --> 00:49:12,960
geysers the frigoli delusion

1253
00:49:18,710 --> 00:49:15,950
which brings us back to where we started

1254
00:49:20,390 --> 00:49:18,720
[Music]

1255
00:49:23,430 --> 00:49:20,400
and that's what goes around from the

1256
00:49:25,270 --> 00:49:23,440
skeptic june 2017

1257
00:49:27,750 --> 00:49:25,280
and you can see most of the issues of

1258
00:49:30,549 --> 00:49:27,760
the skeptic for free on our website

1259
00:49:32,870 --> 00:49:30,559
which is skeptics.com

1260
00:49:45,360 --> 00:49:32,880
have a look download the magazines enjoy

1261
00:49:48,390 --> 00:49:45,370
them and then subscribe

1262
00:49:50,150 --> 00:49:48,400
[Music]

1263
00:49:52,150 --> 00:49:50,160
be reasonable is the interview show from

1264
00:49:53,510 --> 00:49:52,160
the merseyside skeptic society

1265
00:49:55,430 --> 00:49:53,520
where each month i speak to someone

1266
00:49:57,030 --> 00:49:55,440
about their fringe beliefs over the

1267
00:49:59,589 --> 00:49:57,040
years i've spoken to psychics

1268
00:50:01,430 --> 00:49:59,599
ufo believers moon landing and eyes flat

1269
00:50:03,510 --> 00:50:01,440
earthers hollow earthers and all manner

1270
00:50:05,510 --> 00:50:03,520
of unusual conspiracy theorists

1271
00:50:07,430 --> 00:50:05,520
but i've also talked to aids denialists

1272
00:50:08,230 --> 00:50:07,440
white supremacists gay conversion

1273
00:50:09,670 --> 00:50:08,240
therapists

1274
00:50:11,589 --> 00:50:09,680
i even interviewed jim humble the

1275
00:50:13,190 --> 00:50:11,599
inventor of miracle mineral supplement

1276
00:50:14,870 --> 00:50:13,200
a form of industrial beliefs that he and

1277
00:50:15,990 --> 00:50:14,880
his followers use to treat cancer and

1278
00:50:18,069 --> 00:50:16,000
hiv

1279
00:50:19,270 --> 00:50:18,079
this isn't a debate sure my aim isn't to

1280
00:50:21,430 --> 00:50:19,280
win an argument

1281
00:50:23,270 --> 00:50:21,440
but when we listen to how people promote

1282
00:50:23,750 --> 00:50:23,280
and justify the ideas that we disagree

1283
00:50:25,670 --> 00:50:23,760
with

1284
00:50:27,349 --> 00:50:25,680
even the dangerous ones i think we

1285
00:50:28,549 --> 00:50:27,359
become much more effective at countering

1286
00:50:29,750 --> 00:50:28,559
those ideas

1287
00:50:31,829 --> 00:50:29,760
if that sounds like something you'd be

1288
00:50:32,950 --> 00:50:31,839
interested in look for be reasonable on

1289
00:50:50,549 --> 00:50:32,960
apple podcasts and

1290
00:50:55,829 --> 00:50:52,150
thank you for listening to the skeptic

1291
00:50:57,190 --> 00:50:55,839
zone this week as if you are

1292
00:51:00,630 --> 00:50:57,200
if you're not out celebrating and

1293
00:51:02,549 --> 00:51:00,640
dancing in the streets that is

1294
00:51:03,990 --> 00:51:02,559
my my things are going to be different

1295
00:51:05,750 --> 00:51:04,000
in the next

1296
00:51:07,589 --> 00:51:05,760
four years but i wonder what the next

1297
00:51:09,990 --> 00:51:07,599
four weeks will bring

1298
00:51:12,309 --> 00:51:10,000
i can't look into the future i'm not

1299
00:51:13,910 --> 00:51:12,319
psychic you know maybe you're psychic

1300
00:51:16,309 --> 00:51:13,920
maybe you'd like to play the dice game a

1301
00:51:18,630 --> 00:51:16,319
little bit later on after the music

1302
00:51:20,390 --> 00:51:18,640
but we'll get to that soon thank you to

1303
00:51:23,430 --> 00:51:20,400
all those people who continue to support

1304
00:51:25,670 --> 00:51:23,440
the skeptics zone via patreon or paypal

1305
00:51:27,750 --> 00:51:25,680
and uh if you haven't supported the

1306
00:51:30,390 --> 00:51:27,760
skeptic zone yet that's fine

1307
00:51:31,910 --> 00:51:30,400
really i just i'm just pleased that lots

1308
00:51:32,630 --> 00:51:31,920
of people are listening to the show and

1309
00:51:34,710 --> 00:51:32,640
hopefully getting

1310
00:51:36,150 --> 00:51:34,720
entertainment and information from it

1311
00:51:39,349 --> 00:51:36,160
and inspiration

1312
00:51:41,870 --> 00:51:39,359
education and other words like that

1313
00:51:43,030 --> 00:51:41,880
but if you'd like to help just go to

1314
00:51:46,069 --> 00:51:43,040
skepticzone.tv

1315
00:51:48,150 --> 00:51:46,079
and click the patreon paypal link

1316
00:51:50,549 --> 00:51:48,160
now skeptic zone listeners in australia

1317
00:51:54,790 --> 00:51:50,559
may be able to help me here

1318
00:51:57,109 --> 00:51:54,800
in the late 90s i think it was

1319
00:51:59,829 --> 00:51:57,119
around that time my good friend

1320
00:52:02,390 --> 00:51:59,839
associate professor paul willis

1321
00:52:04,230 --> 00:52:02,400
who was probably just then just merely

1322
00:52:08,230 --> 00:52:04,240
dr paul willis did

1323
00:52:12,150 --> 00:52:08,240
some skeptical radio work on

1324
00:52:15,190 --> 00:52:12,160
abc on the abc network here in australia

1325
00:52:18,790 --> 00:52:15,200
it was called the corrects files

1326
00:52:21,990 --> 00:52:18,800
and he did many short episodes

1327
00:52:24,150 --> 00:52:22,000
five minutes or so and the website

1328
00:52:25,430 --> 00:52:24,160
still exists in fact i'll link to it in

1329
00:52:26,950 --> 00:52:25,440
this week's show notes

1330
00:52:29,990 --> 00:52:26,960
if you go to the website of the correct

1331
00:52:33,270 --> 00:52:30,000
files you can see all the transcripts

1332
00:52:36,069 --> 00:52:33,280
of all the shows he did including uh

1333
00:52:37,829 --> 00:52:36,079
many with james randy many short very

1334
00:52:38,630 --> 00:52:37,839
interesting interviews with james randy

1335
00:52:42,150 --> 00:52:38,640
covering

1336
00:52:47,030 --> 00:52:42,160
things like that

1337
00:52:49,430 --> 00:52:47,040
now it was originally a radio

1338
00:52:50,390 --> 00:52:49,440
series so it was broadcast on triple j

1339
00:52:53,589 --> 00:52:50,400
and i think

1340
00:52:55,030 --> 00:52:53,599
other stations ended up on the web page

1341
00:52:55,990 --> 00:52:55,040
and that's where i used to listen to

1342
00:52:58,549 --> 00:52:56,000
them

1343
00:52:59,910 --> 00:52:58,559
and for years when you went to the web

1344
00:53:05,750 --> 00:52:59,920
page

1345
00:53:07,750 --> 00:53:05,760
technology now but it would load a real

1346
00:53:10,470 --> 00:53:07,760
media audio file

1347
00:53:11,829 --> 00:53:10,480
and play you the audio of the episode so

1348
00:53:13,030 --> 00:53:11,839
you could hear it you could hear paul

1349
00:53:16,790 --> 00:53:13,040
you could hear randy and

1350
00:53:20,230 --> 00:53:16,800
his other guests some time ago

1351
00:53:21,829 --> 00:53:20,240
lost to the mists of time all the audio

1352
00:53:25,670 --> 00:53:21,839
disappeared was unlinked

1353
00:53:29,510 --> 00:53:25,680
maybe deleted who knows and i thought

1354
00:53:31,910 --> 00:53:29,520
i thought i had myself

1355
00:53:33,670 --> 00:53:31,920
copied all those audio files and put

1356
00:53:35,510 --> 00:53:33,680
them onto a hard drive which i might

1357
00:53:39,430 --> 00:53:35,520
have done

1358
00:53:41,510 --> 00:53:39,440
had about 10

1359
00:53:42,870 --> 00:53:41,520
old hard drives sitting in a cupboard

1360
00:53:45,349 --> 00:53:42,880
some had failed

1361
00:53:46,950 --> 00:53:45,359
because not so long ago you'd buy a big

1362
00:53:49,589 --> 00:53:46,960
terabyte hard drive

1363
00:53:51,109 --> 00:53:49,599
10 years ago and good luck maybe it

1364
00:53:52,150 --> 00:53:51,119
would work and maybe it would fail with

1365
00:53:56,069 --> 00:53:52,160
all your data

1366
00:53:57,990 --> 00:53:56,079
some failed i've got lots of old

1367
00:54:00,390 --> 00:53:58,000
files and data still sitting in the

1368
00:54:02,630 --> 00:54:00,400
cupboard i can't access

1369
00:54:04,390 --> 00:54:02,640
but some i could access so i bought this

1370
00:54:05,270 --> 00:54:04,400
device where you put into the computer

1371
00:54:07,510 --> 00:54:05,280
and you

1372
00:54:08,390 --> 00:54:07,520
via usb you plug it into your old hard

1373
00:54:10,309 --> 00:54:08,400
drives and

1374
00:54:11,829 --> 00:54:10,319
it powers them up and wow you can read

1375
00:54:12,950 --> 00:54:11,839
them and i was able to get quite a lot

1376
00:54:15,589 --> 00:54:12,960
of old information

1377
00:54:17,670 --> 00:54:15,599
back which is very pleasing but not

1378
00:54:20,150 --> 00:54:17,680
everything nevertheless

1379
00:54:21,510 --> 00:54:20,160
nevertheless i don't know if i kept all

1380
00:54:24,069 --> 00:54:21,520
those episodes or not

1381
00:54:26,069 --> 00:54:24,079
my memory is telling me i might have i

1382
00:54:29,750 --> 00:54:26,079
might have

1383
00:54:31,349 --> 00:54:29,760
maybe you did maybe somewhere

1384
00:54:33,589 --> 00:54:31,359
around australia in the listening

1385
00:54:34,710 --> 00:54:33,599
audience or who knows internationally

1386
00:54:38,069 --> 00:54:34,720
somebody

1387
00:54:42,470 --> 00:54:38,079
like the corex files from paul willis

1388
00:54:45,190 --> 00:54:42,480
and kept a copy now it's a long shot

1389
00:54:47,510 --> 00:54:45,200
but if that's you drop me a line at the

1390
00:54:49,109 --> 00:54:47,520
skeptic zone

1391
00:54:52,309 --> 00:54:49,119
go to the best thing to do would be to

1392
00:54:54,150 --> 00:54:52,319
go to facebook and under the uh

1393
00:54:56,309 --> 00:54:54,160
posting for this episode on the

1394
00:55:00,150 --> 00:54:56,319
skeptic's own facebook

1395
00:55:01,829 --> 00:55:00,160
site page leave a note for me anyway

1396
00:55:03,589 --> 00:55:01,839
who knows fingers crossed i know paul

1397
00:55:07,109 --> 00:55:03,599
willis is keen

1398
00:55:08,870 --> 00:55:07,119
to uh get those back

1399
00:55:11,349 --> 00:55:08,880
and i'm keen to listen to them all over

1400
00:55:12,390 --> 00:55:11,359
again coming up on next week's show i

1401
00:55:15,510 --> 00:55:12,400
think we might

1402
00:55:19,349 --> 00:55:15,520
we might be talking to

1403
00:55:22,150 --> 00:55:19,359
a cat chiropractor um

1404
00:55:23,910 --> 00:55:22,160
something like that hmm not sure what's

1405
00:55:26,150 --> 00:55:23,920
going on there

1406
00:55:27,270 --> 00:55:26,160
more logical fallacies with michelle

1407
00:55:29,589 --> 00:55:27,280
bickersma

1408
00:55:31,349 --> 00:55:29,599
and soon possibly next week or soon

1409
00:55:32,549 --> 00:55:31,359
anyway i'll be talking to klaus larson

1410
00:55:36,390 --> 00:55:32,559
all the way over there

1411
00:55:40,630 --> 00:55:36,400
in denmark about uh conspiracy theories

1412
00:55:42,309 --> 00:55:40,640
somehow i will make a prediction

1413
00:55:44,549 --> 00:55:42,319
i think over the next few weeks we're

1414
00:55:45,910 --> 00:55:44,559
going to be hearing a lot of conspiracy

1415
00:55:48,390 --> 00:55:45,920
theories

1416
00:55:49,990 --> 00:55:48,400
you know just just struck me out of the

1417
00:55:52,710 --> 00:55:50,000
blue maybe i'm getting a message from

1418
00:55:54,390 --> 00:55:52,720
the spirits from the future who knows

1419
00:55:57,190 --> 00:55:54,400
i think we're going to be hearing about

1420
00:55:59,349 --> 00:55:57,200
a lot of conspiracy theories

1421
00:56:01,190 --> 00:55:59,359
but for this week this is richard

1422
00:56:06,549 --> 00:56:01,200
saunders signing off from sydney

1423
00:56:09,750 --> 00:56:08,309
you've been listening to the skeptic

1424
00:56:12,990 --> 00:56:09,760
zone podcast

1425
00:56:14,390 --> 00:56:13,000
please visit our website at

1426
00:56:17,430 --> 00:56:14,400
www.skepticzone.tv

1427
00:56:19,430 --> 00:56:17,440
for show notes contacts and to access

1428
00:56:22,950 --> 00:56:19,440
the back catalog of episodes

1429
00:56:25,030 --> 00:56:22,960
going back to 2008. you can follow the

1430
00:56:28,470 --> 00:56:25,040
skeptic zone podcast on twitter

1431
00:56:31,990 --> 00:56:28,480
at skepticszone visit our facebook page

1432
00:56:33,430 --> 00:56:32,000
or leave a review on itunes you can also

1433
00:56:36,630 --> 00:56:33,440
support the skeptic zone

1434
00:56:37,430 --> 00:56:36,640
via patreon or paypal the skeptic zone

1435
00:56:40,309 --> 00:56:37,440
podcast

1436
00:56:42,069 --> 00:56:40,319
is an independent production the views

1437
00:56:42,549 --> 00:56:42,079
and opinions expressed on the skeptic

1438
00:56:44,549 --> 00:56:42,559
zone

1439
00:56:45,750 --> 00:56:44,559
are not necessarily those of australian

1440
00:57:00,150 --> 00:56:45,760
skeptics or

1441
00:57:04,630 --> 00:57:01,829
hello to the afterthoughts the people

1442
00:57:07,990 --> 00:57:04,640
who like to listen after the music

1443
00:57:09,430 --> 00:57:08,000
and try your luck at the dice game

1444
00:57:11,589 --> 00:57:09,440
for those of you who don't know every

1445
00:57:13,190 --> 00:57:11,599
now and then i roll a 10-sided die or a

1446
00:57:16,230 --> 00:57:13,200
six-sided die a 30-site

1447
00:57:18,309 --> 00:57:16,240
a 60-sided the other week i think and

1448
00:57:20,069 --> 00:57:18,319
you use your predicting power or your

1449
00:57:21,589 --> 00:57:20,079
dumb luck or your

1450
00:57:23,990 --> 00:57:21,599
messages from the future where's my

1451
00:57:26,549 --> 00:57:24,000
skeptic's own pen oh what a creaky chair

1452
00:57:29,270 --> 00:57:26,559
my skeptic's own creaky chair

1453
00:57:30,789 --> 00:57:29,280
get my skeptic's own notepad out move my

1454
00:57:32,710 --> 00:57:30,799
skeptic zone mouse

1455
00:57:35,030 --> 00:57:32,720
on the desk on the skeptic's own desk

1456
00:57:36,390 --> 00:57:35,040
and there's a skeptic's own bird outside

1457
00:57:39,510 --> 00:57:36,400
all right here we go i'm going to roll

1458
00:57:41,670 --> 00:57:39,520
this skeptic zone dice three times

1459
00:57:43,430 --> 00:57:41,680
three if you ever see me in person once

1460
00:57:44,870 --> 00:57:43,440
this craziness is over and we can have

1461
00:57:47,750 --> 00:57:44,880
meetings again and

1462
00:57:50,390 --> 00:57:47,760
conventions come up say hello and i'll

1463
00:57:51,910 --> 00:57:50,400
probably have a skeptics and die for you

1464
00:57:54,390 --> 00:57:51,920
here we go i'm gonna roll this one 10

1465
00:57:56,549 --> 00:57:54,400
times no not

1466
00:57:57,829 --> 00:57:56,559
i'm going to roll it three times maybe i

1467
00:57:59,510 --> 00:57:57,839
should roll it 10 times i'm going to

1468
00:58:01,829 --> 00:57:59,520
roll it three times

1469
00:58:03,270 --> 00:58:01,839
3 if i had a d3 which i'd have i'll roll

1470
00:58:04,230 --> 00:58:03,280
it 10 times now we're going to roll this

1471
00:58:07,670 --> 00:58:04,240
d10

1472
00:58:08,870 --> 00:58:07,680
three times see if you can predict what

1473
00:58:10,200 --> 00:58:08,880
number's coming up here we go roll

1474
00:58:12,390 --> 00:58:10,210
number one

1475
00:58:16,470 --> 00:58:12,400
[Music]

1476
00:58:17,170 --> 00:58:16,480
three okay first number is three next

1477
00:58:19,190 --> 00:58:17,180
number

1478
00:58:23,270 --> 00:58:19,200
[Music]

1479
00:58:24,090 --> 00:58:23,280
two and the last number

1480
00:58:26,470 --> 00:58:24,100
coming up

1481
00:58:29,910 --> 00:58:26,480
[Music]

1482
00:58:32,549 --> 00:58:29,920
what you're kidding me yeah it is

1483
00:58:34,309 --> 00:58:32,559
it's one so hey look you know those

1484
00:58:36,789 --> 00:58:34,319
three numbers have every

1485
00:58:37,829 --> 00:58:36,799
likelihood it's coming up as any other

1486
00:58:41,030 --> 00:58:37,839
three numbers